Twelve Days of Christmas: Day 10
On the tenth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me
Ten titles winning,
Nine “experts” foiling,
Eight zeroes hurling,
Seven feats achieving#,
Six years extending,
Five records set*,
Four slamming birds (1, 2, 3, 4),
Three home runs,
Two golden gloves,
And a new park in the city.
January 4th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Pip:
Regarding the St Louis franchise winning more than 10 championships… I wouldn’t necessrily classify them completely the same as a modern World Series, but I do believe they were ligitimate championships. I do think the early Cardinals franchise should be given more respect. They did win four pennants in a row, something the franchise hasn’t achieved in the 118 years since.
Do you disagree? Do you think those early championship years don’t count?
January 5th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
You raise an interesting point, Zubin. As far as the legitimacy of the championships goes, I’m not a 19th-century expert but defer to the commonly-held view that the postseason matches between the AA champs and the NL champs were “merely” exhibition. I’ll see if I can do some research into how “exhibition-like” they were; they may not have had a formal trophy for the winner, but that doesn’t mean that the teams weren’t trying to win, for team/league pride, etc. Local SABRen Bob Tiemann is well-versed in 19th-c history, so I’ll tap him.
Another question is how far back today’s Cardinals trace their roots. Since the franchise didn’t enter the National League until 1892, and their team was completely different, 1892 seems to be the best starting point. But those AA teams were outstanding, no question. And the 1884 St. Louis Maroons team of the Union Association was pretty good, too.
January 8th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
Thanks Pip,
I wouldn’t say I am an expert but I read a fair share about 19th century players when I was a kid. The St. Louis county public library had a large selection of books on the topic.
As far as the birth of Cardinals, the name goes back to 1900 of course; the NL franchise goes to at least 1892. However the franchise was moved from the AA to the NL when the leagues merged and can be traced back to 1882. Similarly the both the Pirates and Reds date to 1882 and the Dodgers date to 1884 in the AA.
The Cleveland Spiders/ Blues are a more dubious part of the Cardinals’ heritage. The Spiders were foldeed into the Browns (Cardinals) in 1899. They mostly had an undistingushed record, but they did play for the Temple Cup (early World Series) once in 1892. They did have a couple of star players that moved to St Louis: Cy Young and Jesse Burkett.
As far as how formal the Series between the AA and NL were, I don’t know. I do know the Dauvray Cup (even earlier WS) was awarded from 1887-1990, but that was after St Louis won the 1885 and 1886 series.
As for the UA, all you have to doo is look at Fred Dunlap’s stats to see how ligimate of a major league they were. (I know they are considered a ML, but they have to be one of the weakest ever.)
I’d be interested in how my knowledge compares to Bob Tiemann… keep me posted please.