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	<title>Comments on: Lineups: What is and what should never be, part 2</title>
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	<link>http://www.fungoes.net/2008/03/18/lineups-what-is-and-what-should-never-be-part-2/</link>
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		<title>By: knieriemd</title>
		<link>http://www.fungoes.net/2008/03/18/lineups-what-is-and-what-should-never-be-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4928</link>
		<dc:creator>knieriemd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fungoes.net/?p=1096#comment-4928</guid>
		<description>Yea, forgot about the LH thing with Ankiel.  Good point.

For Glaus, here&#039;s my thought:  if your best player is Pujols, you do what you can to protect him.  Because while the numbers are what they are, you&#039;re basically wasting Pujols SLG if they pitch around him all the time, a statistic, incidentally, that&#039;s not taking into account by the metrics for this exercise.

So, who will provide the best protection, while still not throwing a wrench into everything?  If we exclude Ankiel, which I think is valid, really all we are left with is Glaus and Duncan.  As a practical matter, if we go with Duncan, as suggested above, were basically providing no protection against lefties (setting aside whatever the numbers might show, because for this discussion, perception might be more important then reality).  Against righties, I think Duncan has a valid argument -- both his OBP and OPS are slightly higher than Glaus, though statistically I&#039;m not sure its that significant, and Glaus for whatever reason certainly hits better at 5.  At 5, he still presents some protection to Pujols even with Duncan at 4.  To me, that is more valuable -- though, albeit, one that may not be quantifiable -- then adding another (perhaps) 50 points in OBP at 2.

So, if it was me, I&#039;d flip Glaus between 4 and 5 depending on wether its a righty or lefty.  That still leaves the Cardinals perpetual problem of who to bat 2nd  I&#039;m still not sure some combo of Ludwick/Barton may not be a bad solution.

This may be all a wasted exercise, however.  I agree the numbers put Glaus at 2.  My argument is one of those &quot;gut feeling&quot; issues that may never be quantifiable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, forgot about the LH thing with Ankiel.  Good point.</p>
<p>For Glaus, here&#8217;s my thought:  if your best player is Pujols, you do what you can to protect him.  Because while the numbers are what they are, you&#8217;re basically wasting Pujols SLG if they pitch around him all the time, a statistic, incidentally, that&#8217;s not taking into account by the metrics for this exercise.</p>
<p>So, who will provide the best protection, while still not throwing a wrench into everything?  If we exclude Ankiel, which I think is valid, really all we are left with is Glaus and Duncan.  As a practical matter, if we go with Duncan, as suggested above, were basically providing no protection against lefties (setting aside whatever the numbers might show, because for this discussion, perception might be more important then reality).  Against righties, I think Duncan has a valid argument &#8212; both his OBP and OPS are slightly higher than Glaus, though statistically I&#8217;m not sure its that significant, and Glaus for whatever reason certainly hits better at 5.  At 5, he still presents some protection to Pujols even with Duncan at 4.  To me, that is more valuable &#8212; though, albeit, one that may not be quantifiable &#8212; then adding another (perhaps) 50 points in OBP at 2.</p>
<p>So, if it was me, I&#8217;d flip Glaus between 4 and 5 depending on wether its a righty or lefty.  That still leaves the Cardinals perpetual problem of who to bat 2nd  I&#8217;m still not sure some combo of Ludwick/Barton may not be a bad solution.</p>
<p>This may be all a wasted exercise, however.  I agree the numbers put Glaus at 2.  My argument is one of those &#8220;gut feeling&#8221; issues that may never be quantifiable.</p>
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		<title>By: Pip</title>
		<link>http://www.fungoes.net/2008/03/18/lineups-what-is-and-what-should-never-be-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4925</link>
		<dc:creator>Pip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fungoes.net/?p=1096#comment-4925</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the thoughts. 

1. 500 PAs is a decent sample, I think. To be sure, there are other factors involved. But it certainly doesn&#039;t indicate that Glaus would be a colossal failure if he were to hit 2nd, which is really all that&#039;s needed, I think. If you bat him 4th/5th, you&#039;re really wasting his abilities, since he projects as the team&#039;s second-best hitter. Any particular reason you prefer him that low?

2. Well, that&#039;s a good question. I tried to come up with the best, most realistic lineup. Barton is the most suspect, since, as you point out (and the spring numbers bear out), Schumaker will likely be in the lineup before Barton will. My &quot;3 keys&quot; still apply: If Ankiel is in the lineup, he should bat no higher than 5th. As for Ankiel&#039;s ability to defy the defensive spectrum, he used to be an outfielder in h.s., so I don&#039;t consider him to be a full &quot;convert.&quot; I&#039;ll try to find out the last time a lefthanded second baseman played. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the thoughts. </p>
<p>1. 500 PAs is a decent sample, I think. To be sure, there are other factors involved. But it certainly doesn&#8217;t indicate that Glaus would be a colossal failure if he were to hit 2nd, which is really all that&#8217;s needed, I think. If you bat him 4th/5th, you&#8217;re really wasting his abilities, since he projects as the team&#8217;s second-best hitter. Any particular reason you prefer him that low?</p>
<p>2. Well, that&#8217;s a good question. I tried to come up with the best, most realistic lineup. Barton is the most suspect, since, as you point out (and the spring numbers bear out), Schumaker will likely be in the lineup before Barton will. My &#8220;3 keys&#8221; still apply: If Ankiel is in the lineup, he should bat no higher than 5th. As for Ankiel&#8217;s ability to defy the defensive spectrum, he used to be an outfielder in h.s., so I don&#8217;t consider him to be a full &#8220;convert.&#8221; I&#8217;ll try to find out the last time a lefthanded second baseman played. <img src='http://www.fungoes.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: knieriemd</title>
		<link>http://www.fungoes.net/2008/03/18/lineups-what-is-and-what-should-never-be-part-2/comment-page-1/#comment-4924</link>
		<dc:creator>knieriemd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fungoes.net/?p=1096#comment-4924</guid>
		<description>Good food for thought.  A couple things:

1.  Without 500 PAs at 2nd, I&#039;m not sure how much value I place in the numbers for Glaus.  It also does not take into account protection for AP, which must have some value beyond the numbers.  I still think batting him 4th or 5th is the way to go.

2.  I understand this is a theoretical exercise, but is Barton in CF really legitimate?  What are the odds he actually sees playing time there?  And if not, that means the lineup has to be figured with Schu or Ankiel hitting somewhere.  Shoot, Ankiel converted to an outfielder; despite James&#039; defensive spectrum, any hope to make him at least a 2Bman?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good food for thought.  A couple things:</p>
<p>1.  Without 500 PAs at 2nd, I&#8217;m not sure how much value I place in the numbers for Glaus.  It also does not take into account protection for AP, which must have some value beyond the numbers.  I still think batting him 4th or 5th is the way to go.</p>
<p>2.  I understand this is a theoretical exercise, but is Barton in CF really legitimate?  What are the odds he actually sees playing time there?  And if not, that means the lineup has to be figured with Schu or Ankiel hitting somewhere.  Shoot, Ankiel converted to an outfielder; despite James&#8217; defensive spectrum, any hope to make him at least a 2Bman?</p>
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